Saturday, December 14, 2019

CES Nonsense


Years ago when I was struggling with trying to understand my faith, I joined a group on Facebook with people that had similar issues. A whole bunch of people trying to come to grips with how they felt, what they had read or other experiences in their lives. One man in the group was also wondering on how to best understand his faith and had asked his father if he could ask him some questions. His father, IIRC, had determined that the questions were a bit more involved than he knew how to answer but he knew someone higher up in the Church Education System (CES) and if he could write up his questions, he would pass them on.

Thus the publication of the "CES Letter" was started. I didn't realize that I was witnessing something that would lead thousands out of the church.  As time went on, calls for references were made to substantiate the questions as well as any possible responses. The CES official never did respond to the letter, but it eventually was expanded and published and is freely available online for download. The author, Jeremy Runnels, was eventually excommunicated. His trial was covertly recorded and it and several other interviews are available on YouTube. He wanted others to know what asking uncomfortable but honest questions would lead to.

I've long since unsubscribed from that FB group. I do still have friends that I met there, but I no longer frequent those kinds of sites because my family has moved on. However, I was informed of this on a subreddit and I thought it was a great example of the kinds of people who leave the church and just how we treat each other generally.

What Do I Do Now?

EDIT: well, this blew up. I am blown away from all of the messages and comments that I have been receiving. They are filled with love and compassion. I wish I could message all of you back. Maybe I will another day. But for now, I have finals to study for. Also, I hold no grudges or ill-feelings to anybody that was involved in my post below. 
I've been wanting to post on here, but I just needed time to process all of the new information that i have received the past couple of weeks (which have felt like months).
I am one of the sons of the stake president that excommunicated Jeremy Runnels. So, I have a unique perspective that I would like to share with this community. First off, I love my dad with all of my heart and he and my mom have been my rock and support for all of my life. I had a great childhood, even though my dad was gone a lot of Tuesdays/Sundays for church meetings. I went on a mission, Temple Marriage, the whole enchilada. After I got home from my mission in 2014. I went away to go to college at a small college. I was at this college when the whole Jeremy thing was happening. So, what did they say about the church court?
Nothing, absolutely nothing. I didn't hear anything about this till months and months later. And even then, it was through my mother. who talked about it very briefly and with no details. She told me that my dad held a church court. It was on the news, and my dad was going through a really difficult and rough time. It weighed on him heavily the decisions he had to make. and the night of the church court, my mom went to stay with other family just to be safe. (The church also sent security or something to protect my dad) not clear so don't quote me on that. My mom later found that someone had spray painted a swastika underneath our backyard doormat. So that just solidified my belief in the church and how exmo's are bad people wanting to hurt the church.
But, why am I writing this post in 2019 and not back then when it was relevant? Well I got curious a couple months ago about why that excommunication happened. So, I googled my dad and the church. That sent me down down down the rabbit hole. I read news articles about the trial, I watched the video Jeremy released of his church court. I read all of the demeaning comments about my dad. I found this subreddit because it linked to Jeremy.
Then, I found the CES letter. Holy crap. I couldn't stop reading it. I would look at the sources, stay up all hours of the night just reading the letter. I then read Letter for my wife, Then the gospel topics essays. I couldn't believe it! I remember learning a little bit about polygamy and Joseph Smith and the peep stone. But, definitely not to this extent. I was devastated. Also, I found all of this during the last couple weeks of the fall sememster. So, whenever I wasn't working, going to school or studying, I was glued to finding more Information.
I found John Dehlin and his Mormon Stories podcast and that has helped me so much. because he has just a loving approach to everybody and doesn't bash the church like a lot of posts on this subreddit do.
So, I came out to my wife and said I'm having trouble with my testimony. I gave her high level basics of what was going on. About my dad, the CES letter and the gospel topics essays. She said I shouldn't look at that stuff anymore. I let it go. And whenever I try and bring up something about the letter or anything controversial about the church. she says that she would rather be left in the dark.
I also tried to talk to close friends about my issues vaguely and they just changed the subject. So i left it. But, now I don't know who to talk to. I don't want to talk to my dad because I feel that it would crush him if one of his children fell away because of the actions of someone he excommunicated. and the rest of my family is so devout that I would like to think they would love me and talk me through this, but, I don't know if that would happen.
So, I'm having a faith crisis with nobody to talk to and crying in church because i'm still feeling all of the good the church does and provides but also cant deny facts. and ALL DURING FINALS WEEK. RIP my concentration.
I wrote this for two reasons.
just to get it off my chest and to put it all in words.
Just be nice to everybody. Everybody has their faults and mistakes. And many people that we criticize and demean within the church have families and loved ones that are devastated when they hear all of the bad and derogatory things they hear about them.
We don't win with fear and hatred, we win with love.

And who was the one I found at the top of the list of responses?

 Jeremy Runnells here. It's an understatement to say that I'm surprised to see this post. A friend texted me telling me about this just now.
First of all, thank you for your vulnerability and for sharing this. I know it takes a lot of courage and I applaud you.
I see your faith crisis (I prefer to instead refer it as "Discovering the Church's Truth Crisis") is just weeks old. I remember how disorienting and insane my early weeks were and what a shock it was to my system and model of the world. You have my compassion and sincere concern.
I agree with your post. I think your dad is a decent man at his core. He was caught in the middle of something that he was unprepared for and just couldn't process. I'm not surprised by your words that it weighed heavily on him as I believe it did. I met with him about a year before the court thing went down in 2016 and he offered to consult with his historian friends about the questions and wanted to help. He disappeared for about a year after that and I can only speculate that perhaps it was because it was too scary for him to go down that road so he just left it on the shelf.
I don't see your dad as the instigator. I see LDS, Inc. in Salt Lake as the instigator. The first time I heard back from your dad after that year of silence was in January 2016 when he called me. One of the first things he said was, "I need to hold a court on you." It wasn't "I'm going to hold a court" or "I've decided I'm going to hold a court"...it was "I need to...". What this told me was that there was an outside force putting pressure on him to do this and it fits with what I've seen in my interactions with him. I don't think he wanted to go after me but had no choice as he had to obey the Brethren.
I never wanted to hurt your dad and have never wished him ill. I'm sorry to hear about the hardship he and his wife went through and the whole swastika thing is outrageous and unacceptable.
You're not alone and you shouldn't feel alone. There are so many good people here and in this community who can help you through this. This includes myself and John Dehlin. If there's a good time to have a faith crisis, 2019 is it as there are so many excellent resources and wisdom. You've received a gift but it will take time to fully appreciate the gift. It's not going to look like a gift in the coming weeks and months but it's a gift.
Hang in there and keep your chin up. You've done nothing wrong. Keep asking questions and keep climbing. The mountain is hard to climb but it's gorgeous at the top.

I just think this is how people should support each other. People go through challenges. We need support.

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